Wednesday, 31 March 2010

Sgt Smellie and ex-Commander Dizaei


So today has been an interesting news day for the Police.

In one article, we see that ex-Commander Dizaei has now been fired by the met.
Good riddance, and it's nice to see that we've finally rid ourselves of him.
Incidentally, the Met stopped paying him as soon as he was convicted - so at least he hasn't been adding to his nest egg whilst in prison.

Also, a verdict (and hopefully some closure at last) for Sgt Smellie.

When this News Story came out, I was uncharacteristically silent about the matter.
This was partly because I was actually at the G20 and so couldn't pretend to be objective so close to the incident. It is also because I know some of the people involved in this investigation.

My opinion now (for what it's worth) is that the courts made the right decision.
The video of Sgt Smellie striking Ms Fisher is uncomfortable viewing, and is not pleasant to watch at all.
Unfortunately, many actions within a public order environment are not pretty. Our sensibilities are understandably designed so that a woman being struck is not something we want to see.
But British law provides for the person using force NOT to be omnipresent, and NOT necessarily to be able to judge all of the facts in the cold light of day. Sgt Smellie was in the middle of a very long tour of duty (I did something like seventeen or eighteen hours on both days), surrounded by a shouting mob, jostled, objects being thrown, and attempting to protect the officers behind him who had their backs turned - and were dealing with something else and so unable to assist or defend themselves.

The thing that struck me throughout the video was how calm the Sergeant is - he does not look to me like a man panicking and unable to make reasoned thought. He looks like an officer in a pile of shit who calmly uses approved officer safety methods to build distance and space and to prevent either an aggressor or potential aggressor from attacking him. His serial are behind him and afterwards he goes back to staying at the back of his serial - Sergeants are trained during public order training to do exactly that, and to make judgement calls about whether to split or even turn the serial to deal with threats. He made the judgement call to protect his serial and allow them to continue to Police.

Have I ever hit a woman with a back hander? No. Have I struck a woman in other ways? Yes, absolutely.
Although we deal with hundreds (thousands?) of peaceful protests in the Met, we also deal with numerous public order incidents of varying description. Sometimes officers have to use force - and they should only be judged (as law states) by the information available to them and the situation they were in at the time.


EDIT - for my views on the G20, written after my policing experience there, see HERE

231 comments:

1 – 200 of 231   Newer›   Newest»
thoughts running through my head.... said...

I really feel for sgt Smellie, no one understands the situation properly unless they have been in something similar and women are WORSE than men in any situ IMO, much worse, I hate dealing with women! She didn't even turn up to court as far as I am aware which speaks volumes.
good riddance to Dizaei though.

Rach said...

A big round of applause for the most reasoned comments that have come out concerning all of this.

I never doubted the truth would out in the end.

Blue Eyes said...

This is why I keep coming back for more. Could you explain a bit about the law of self defence?

I thought it was interesting that someone who felt so "wronged" by Mr Smellie didn't even bother to turn up to court to give evidence.

It is somehow reassuring to ordinary voters and taxpayers such as myself that the courts aren't afraid to put coppers on the stand though. It shows the system does not sweep accusations under the carpet. It must have been hell for the officer concerned though.

Get Mr Smellie a cup of tea on me next time you see him.

Dr Melvin T Gray said...

My advice to any member of the public giving consideration to contributing to this debate anything which fails to support Sgt Smellie or his shameful acquittal, may expet a flood of vile and hostile reactions from violent/biased police.

Inspector Gadget's blog has historically provided abundant evidence of this shocking abuse of the public. The dawn cannot arrive soon enough for the arrest and public unmasking of this libellous tyrant and tension maker.

Debate of this verdict on any police blog, is therefore pointless ATNS. In lieu of the same, I predict your brief joy will turn to wincing tomorrow when determined public teeth clamp down on vital police viscera.

Stressed Out Cop said...

So has the public interest been served? Personally I think Tony was hung out to dry when it was obviously a masterclass in officer safety techniques.

Those within the job all know it - even I suspect SENIOR MANAGEMENT.

The Big man will take it in his stride - Top Bloke

JuliaM said...

"I thought it was interesting that someone who felt so "wronged" by Mr Smellie didn't even bother to turn up to court to give evidence."

Why bother? She got what she really wanted - publicity - thanks to Champion of the People, Max Clifford...

Blue Eyes said...

Julia: **exactly**

Isn't it amazing how many people shout HUMAN RIGHTS! POLICE BRUTALITY! and all that when all they are interested in is a few quid and their five minutes of fame?

dickiebo said...

Rach; 'A big round of applause for the most reasoned comments that have come out concerning all of this.'
I thoroughly agree, even though I very strongly disapprove of Smellie's action with his baton. (Not, necessarily, the backhander though!)

Hogday said...

Good post Area. Anyone who's ever done a demo knows precisely how they can turn on a tanner. I find it sad that the two things that will be remembered about the G20 was a tragic death and a slapper slapped something that comes close on countless occasions, but for luck. I though the Met done good and said so at the time. I've no reason to changethat view.

thoughts running through my head.... said...

I don't know about 'tragic death' !!

Anonymous said...

Ah, it's "Dr Melvin T Gray" again, here to entertain ourselves with some more high-quality trolling.

Like so much "police brutality" we get ranted to about, this example could easily have been avoided by the victim herself.

She was told to move away. She moved closer.

She was pushed away. She moved closer.

She was hit in the face. She moved back.

Only then was she hit in the leg.

One wonders if she repeatedly shoved her hand into flames when she was a child.

She was acting in a threatening manner (if a stranger repeatedly invaded my personal space to angrily shout at me, I would certainly feel threatened), and he responded in a measured way, only escalating when milder enforcement had no effect.

Were I to go up to a random bloke on the street and act the way she did, I doubt I would get a similarly measured response!

Blue Eyes said...

"Were I to go up to a random bloke on the street and act the way she did, I doubt I would get a similarly measured response!"

Indeed.

Worth pointing out at this point that our friend Doctor Melvin sends plenty of traffic to my site, because when you type his name into Google I come up seventh.

This has been a public service announcement.

TonyF said...

A good day all round.

Hmmm.... said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8583760.stm

This particular news report is interesting as it mentions 2 witnesses who helped Sgt. Smellie's defence. It calmed
me somewhat that the media's "unfair and inaccurate portrayal" of the incident was highlighted.

That is all I would like to say about the matter!

Tom said...

I thought the verdict fair. I certaily would have found myself perhaps lacking in restraint should I have been in this officers position. However, this is a fully trained officer, and in my view responded in a measured maneer to despicable conduct of the alleged victim.

I do commend the two members of the public who contacted the IPCC of their own volition having witnessed the conduct of Fisher.

The thing is that we constantly ignore the very human face of policing. Two police officers knocked on my door yesterday. Tragically, my neighbour a confirmed bachelor in his eighties had suffered a severe injury, and had been hospitalised. The two officers were grimly determined to marry up our neighbour with his next of kin.

Clearly not the act of the slavering dogs of government suppresion alluded to by a 'luminary' of the calibre of Dr. Melvin T Gray.

Anonymous said...

Dr. M.
My advice to any member of the public giving consideration to contributing to this debate anything which fails to support Sgt Smellie or his shameful acquittal, may expet a flood of vile and hostile reactions from violent/biased police.


I take issue with the words "shameful acquittal" - could you explain in simple terms, why your view based on internet footage is, superior, more informed and more reasoned than that of the Judge who has actually seen ALL the evidence.

I imagine by "vile and hostile reactins" you mean posts made by those with whose views you do not agree.

I appreciate that a large number of comments have been made by police - however a number of members of the public have also posted in support of Sgt Smellie - I take it they are just deluded then - unlike yourself?


Tang0

Sierra Charlie said...

It's oh-so-easy for us armchair commentators to say what might otherwise have been. For me I will not comment seriously until I have been in that position myself. And hopefully that will be never.

Jay said...

Dr M sounds so full of venom, hatred and bias and yet he expects his opinions to be taken seriously. What a fool.
It seems today that justice has been done.
Let loose the gnashing of the teeth Dr M I’m waiting.

Dr Melvin T Gray said...

The Gadget camp besmirches me with the spurious label of 'venomous'. Hatred and venom are far removed from my nature.

My objective, prevailing over decades, has been a selfless restoration of respect for a decent police service. What upsets the likes of Gadget or 'Jay' is that this goal will never be achieved without mass removal of the worst in uniform.

As Gadget scorns citizens and government with equal contempt, he revels in representing himself as the worst of our police. His blog invites other police to follow his malevolent format. The blog owes some of its success to sick entertainment provided for colleagues in the form of baiting and insulting of those citizen commenters, who dare to be critical of the content. It is the antithesis of the Policing Pledge and the epitome of all the current wrongs in UK Policing. The man's actions only steepen a downward spiral into disrepute.

Followers of this tyrant will reflect upon their own postings as soon as the present protection concealing Gadget is removed and the blog is closed. Yet this man will not go down alone. All the information he has stored on contributors, will be used to broker the best deal for himself when the time comes for him to barter.

Now scurry back under your rock, 'Jay'.

Hogday said...

@"Thoughts running..." Not sure what you meant about my comment about Tomlinson's death being tragic, but since it caused something to click and you took the trouble to say so, I'll expand a little. I meant that the death was tragic, for the man, the officers involved, the families, the police service. During my service I was often given the duty of heading up operations against armed criminals and terrorist groups. I was also trained to Level 1 public order. I pointed a loaded gun at many a suspect over my years in this role and was deployed on any number of ugly public order incidents. I am also no hero action man type. I just did it as a facet of my job. Thankfully, I never fired a shot, but I know a few officers who did, some of whom who took someones life. Even those officers who shot and killed career armed robbers, the sort of thug who wouldn't have hesitated to shoot an innocent person in order to get what they wanted, felt it was `tragic`, albeit justified. I was once at a demo where a man died in the melee. That was also tragic. It may have even been at the hands of a police officer but it was never proved, yet I still felt it keenly because I was part of the police contingent, although not near the scene of this tragedy. Even if I'd shot and killed a person who, by all evidence of their lifestyle, behaviour and by the opinions of the masses absolutely deserved it, I would view it as tragic, even if I was totally justified in using lethal force to save anothers life. I just felt I ought to explain what I meant by my use of that word `tragic`.

Jay said...

Dr M I can’t scurry under my rock until I hear the gnashing of teeth......Still waiting.
Just as a side note could your next post be not so predictable.

TheBinarySurfer said...

Good post ATNS. The NPBA lost all credibility in my eyes when they defended him for the umpteenth time AFTER he was convicted.

Hopefully it and all these other pressure groups within the public sector will expose their self-serving nature in due course.

'Dr Mel' you amuse me greatly in calling for someone to be brought to task, then dismissing the ruling when it doesn't go 'your way'.

It reminds me very much of my nephew who similarly throws his toys out of the pram and has a hissy fit when I tell him it's too close to dinner for sweets / fizzy drinks.

The only difference is that i can understand it coming from him at age 7, as opposed to you, a (supposedly) intelligent adult.

Run along and try and restart your stalled extreme left pressure group 'naming and shaming' people who wrote you parking tickets or something eh?

MTG said...

Your immediate family have fits and are contained in prams at the age of 7 years and beyond, BiSufferer?

My dear chap, I only wish I could express surprise.

TheBinarySurfer said...

Your immediate family have fits and are contained in prams at the age of 7 years and beyond, BiSufferer?

My dear chap, I only wish I could express surprise.
-----------
Hilarity MTG;it'd be even funnier if you had a real argument / comeback back up your trolling / deliberate misinterpretation.

If you were in fact really intelligent, or your views were shared by the public at large you would not have/be all of the following:

<>A founding member of a failed pressure group (again, i'm shocked)
<>A crackpot conspiracy theorist (you almost hid your membership to a certain site and your several hundred posts, have a gold star and a pat on the head)
<>Banned from the several police blogging sites for failing to contribute anything to the discussion, even a reasoned opposing viewpoint.
<>A failed local politician (my dear chap, i only wish i could express surprise that you gathered a wopping 14 votes out of several thousand cast).

Blue Eyes said...

It's good to keep perspective. By rooting himself to his rather boring and predictable spot, Dr Melvin provides a fixed point by which the rest of us are able to navigate. Not quite as useful as a stopped clock, Dr Melvin will eventually be right about something.

MTG said...

Dear Blue or BiSufferer as you sometimes prefer,

Regardless of the impact of your erudite critique on my reputation, your blog maintains a fatal attraction for me. Keenly awaited on that site are the promised shots of your Cinderella visit to the West End as Shirley Bassey.

Don't forget to include that 'after' pic of your black eye and a drenching from a passing taxi with you mounted on a gutter pumpkin.

TheBinarySurfer said...

Indeed Blue Eyes; a cautionary tale is often wise. I have long since stopped expecting MTG to come up with an intelligent response representing a reasoned (opposing) viewpoint, or indeed for that matter anything he hasn't googled to steal from an obscure passage.

I wonder if he can actually speak; after such a long time spewing crap his lips must have puckered in imitation of that likely unused orifice.

Oh and since you persist in trying to insult me calling me 'Bi' (it's only an insult if you arent or share your readily apparent fear of gay people) please consider 'racist and homophobic' added to your list of flaws MTG.

Don't worry; i'll be sure to look up your local huddersfield gay education campaigners and send them around to No. 39 shortly (hint; including your exact home address on the web opens you up to a lot of 'problems' when you piss people off).

Metcountmounty said...

Hey, Bi Guy @12:28

jus what *is* this fascinaion that you have with obscure "passages" .... ?

Blue Eyes said...

Dr Melvin, you obviously have not opened your curtains recently or are somehow posting from the 1950s. Next time you are in the west end I suggest opening your eyes, engaging your brain and getting with the programme.

I am very popular around Soho, when the chance arises to pay a visit ;-)

MTG said...

Area has been pretty tolerant of some abuse so I am now obliged to call foul on the current exchange, Blue.

However should you and your alter ego agree to import the puerility, I may be inclined to contribute responses to you on your own blog.

Blue Eyes said...

Doctor Melvin, I might be in Soho tomorrow night if you fancy a meet?

Blue Eyes said...

Dr Melvin I am very disappointed. I cruised around Soho and the West End all night, up and down Old Compton, Brewer and Dean streets for hours on end but none of the intelligent, articulate and open-minded individuals that I spoke to admitted to being called Melvin T Gray.

Trooper said...

I'm glad they got Dizaei. And wasn't that women 'asking for it'? To go around the coppers pushing for a response and then going to court when she got it? She can't have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

Un risque de passion. So how much did you earn over the entire evening, Blue?

Metountymounty said...

You're all fucking twats!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm a HERO, I am.


(Simper) ( Simper)

.... where are you Brian, Honey? XX

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Blue Eyes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
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I have left my wife and gone to live with Steve.

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The sex is better too.

XX

Anonymous said...

never been motivated to comment on a blog before. but it is a wonderful insight into the minds of the police to see what you lot think.

seriously, do you not think people's disrespect for you is at an all-time low, without speaking your minds in public in this way?

He attacked a woman who was armed with some juice. She was tiny and ranty, agreed. He was big and tooled up. I won't comment on his character - his actions speak for themselves.

What if it were your daughter or wife?

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Dreaduk said...

I'm an ex Cop and was involved in the miners strikes many years ago.

I have had to question my condemnation of Sgt. Smellie's actions as seen on TV since reading this blog. In my day the only thing that could be used to strike anyone would be the police issue baton, if a fist or hand was used it would be considered assault under almost any circumstances.

My perception, therefore, was that the backhander was wrong but if he felt threatened his use of his baton was acceptable.

Does Police training now advocate the use of hands as a means of defence when a baton is available, indeed drawn from what I could see?

Dreaduk said...

Dr Melvin T Gray

As I'm new here I'm possibly setting myself up for some abuse but nevertheless I must ask something. You say:

"My objective, prevailing over decades, has been a selfless restoration of respect for a decent police service."

Can you tell me what your criteria for a decent Police service is?

It might also be worthwhile asking yourself who you voted for in the last few general elections as the labour party has buried a Police service, already struggling to deal with the avalanche of crime, under mounds of paperwork. Much of that paperwork is to justify dealing with barrack room lawyers on early release who know full well the judiciary will take months, if not years to examine their case before, inevitably releasing them on bail because our prisons are full. When you are faced with an assailant in the street, or wake up in the middle of the night confronted by a burglar you may well wish a man like Sgt. Smellie was with you.

It is a sad fact that declining standards of home discipline; please and thank you, using a knife and fork at a table, respect for elders etc. contribute to a growing, young, feral social strata that grows up imagining it can do whatever it likes without consequences. It is an emerging fact that they are also pretty well correct. The CCTV replacement for patrol officers have comprehensively failed, as have the forest of speed cameras planted as the cheap replacement to Police Officers on the roads and Policing on the cheap with ill trained, badly equipped Community Officers who have no power of arrest has abjectly failed.

As for internal discipline, I have seen a few of officers disciplined for violence against the public and in some cases, dismissed for a lot less than what Sgt Smellie did (under entirely different circumstances though) and you would be surprised at how fellow officers despise them. 99.9% of Cops have no time for any other Cop conducting themselves in a manner that reflects badly on him far less risks his livelihood. Having been falsely accused of violence myself I can assure you there is no more thorough a prosecutor than the Police itself on its own; an internal investigation is truly scary, as it should be.

My point is that a well equipped, well populated, internally disciplined Police force helps to manage a well ordered society but its a political decision whether that's available and not up to the Police themselves.

I'm no longer a Copper, I left the job a number of years ago but I don't believe any Cop joins the job with the intention of doing wrong. None of us wanted to hit anyone else, believe me, its much nicer not being in fights than rolling around in the dirt with a violent drunk, and although the first few times you do it may be exciting, after the 10th time you are pretty fed up with it and soon learn to talk people round. In the vast majority of cases, when a Cop hits someone its because he/she has absolutely no option and their own safety is in danger. We all joined with noble aspirations, some went astray along the way but no more than fractions of a percent and out of all the Police in the UK I think that's a pretty good tally.

You get the Police force you deserve at the ballot box and new labour will never provide what our communities need. I won't turn this into a political debate but I think its worth saying that new labours complete misunderstanding of society is evident in its 'bling' approach to health & education, build lots of new hospitals and schools but completely neglect the human infrastructure that makes them work, the doctors, nurses, cleaners, teachers etc. so they can simply bandy about meaningless statistics at the next election. Blair's alliance with Bush meant the banks were deregulated despite recent history identifying the crash of the 1930's being caused by deregulated banks, Blair, Bush and Brown are criminally responsible for the state the world is in now, how can you expect them to provide the public with a decent Police force?

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Dr Melvin T Gray said...

Shrewd policemen will shun the company of Gadget and his rabble, Area.

Rolling in the dirt with insects could permanently stain a good uniform.

MTG said...

A new police blog has opened today - thanks to the perseverance of its mentor.

Instead of taking the predictably easy route of selecting a commenter with intelligence and finesse, ATNS opted for the more difficult challenge. From the cohorts of police on long term sick, he scraped up the worst of all the coarse, uneducated and obscene characters he could find.

Providing this individual with a purpose and finding work for idle hands leaves Shijuro and citizens in your debt, Area.

Blue Eyes said...

Common sense *can* ultimately prevail.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10340798.stm

Or it's all a big conspiracy and cover-up...

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MTG said...

There will be no formal announcement of the inevitable police cleansing. The Chief Constable shielding Gadget will name the traitor before David Cameron has no alternative but to skewer both. Either way, it will begin closure of the UK's maverick police blogs and herald the creation of the working relationship between police and public, expected within a democracy.

Every rogue police officer who abused position in any way, or assisted corrupt colleagues to evade justice, or stirred hatred anonymously, will be identified. UK Citizens have the moral right to this information and every moral right to reject by any means if necessary, a State Police growing ever more maniacal.

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Blue Eyes said...

That's right MTG, throw Mr Area to the wolves!!

Blue Eyes said...

Alternatively, please come back Mr Area! You followers miss you!!

Alf said...

Superb blog post ATNS. The day that a copper can't give a good old fashioned backhander to a lippy cow is the day that we go to hell in a hand cart.

We need more like the good sgt on our streets, and now that ZaNuLiebore are out, we might just get them.

Keep up the good work, God bless.

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